capt_nemo

I have a lil different reason thou!!!! OTC's/Pinkies are all POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL, They are all POS but it a lil harder for the monkeys to mess with a $5.00 stock, when they can kill the sheep with a .0001 POS!!!! JMHO as always, and I proly don't know chit!!!! Happy fathers day Mr.

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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind.
Joseph Conrad,

Use your own mind on what to buy and sell!!

mp6140

I guess i look at it in a slightly different manner than mightybridge --- for me there is no battle, but a very quickly paced GAME between myself (and how many thousands of other traders) and the market makers (when dealing with the Naz -- slightly different with the NYSE)

thinking of trading as a Battle implies that one will lose and one will win and among traders, at least, that is a very youthful and possibly immature approach. Like mightybridge, I wait for the stock to come to me and not waste energy chasing to and fro, but I care not if the stock is "weakened" in the least ! In truth, the stronger the stock, the better the ride (as in brahma bull riding OR another activity I should not relate on a family website)

In all trades, there is a buyer and a seller ---- NO ONE knows why another sells at a certain point, but in mightybridge's example perhaps the bearish seller was covering a SHORT position and has made their profit, now leaving the inevitable up and down cycle of the market to those who like to play long ! The LONG trader does not become the "victor" here, but simply another trader playing the opposite side of a stocks cycle which in this case is simply going up !

My own method is to maintain a CORE holding on a very few stocks in one account, while i daytrade (also called "flipping" or "scalping") the same stocks intraday moves (be they long or short) in another account during the stocks run. THEN I will turn around and SHORT the stocks downside movement, also trading the intraday moves while holding the core position for what is normally a three day swing play.

All thru this activity (which may take one stock a week and a half to move thru) I am playing a game of chess, and not seeking blood --- but it is simply a GAME, utilized to provide me with the basics of life, the 3 homes i consider so necessary, the maserati and the 3 or 4 women my lifestyle and libido desires !

OK, so even i can have some fun with my posts, but the underlying theme while i trade is to make profit, and not to do battle ---- my life is exciting enough with those 3 women running it that i do not have to "play" at being macho while trading !

Its nothing but a silly game, and for some reason we make money by doing absolutely nothing productive --- lets not seek to find our "tests of manhood" behind every stock symbol !

__________________
Within the great hall at Elfinore stands a wondrous coffer, precisely four cubits square and securely latched against the outside world. Inside that repository, shut away from impertinent eyes, abides many an intriquing trading secret garnered from around the world and over the ages !

As a child, i used to watch from the darkness as the secrets were debated and annotated by the elders. No one there held a single thought of my presence -- BUT I KNOW WHERE THEY HID THE KEY !!

eSology

MP, I thought somebody always had to lose or else there wouldn't be a winner? The MMs surely don't take it in the shorts do they?

mp6140

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would take a small book (or a pamphlet at least) to describe what the mm's are doing at any one point, and i dont have the experience for that, but look at a level 2 read on a stock and notice that the mm's have their SELLS in place before they make their BUYS. Notice on any stock (only takes a minute) what the spread is between buy and sell that they are playing to make pofit and then realize that is ALL they need to continue making profit.

But please understand, at least in my world, that there are no "winners" or "losers" but simply good or bad trades ! WHO proclaims one a winner and the other a loser --- NO ONE ! You have either made a good trade or not, which may be why I like Toni Turner so much --- NO TESTOSTERONE !


The mm's are not going to give you THEIR spread, so you have to work within it, buying at the ask and selling at the bid (for the most part anyway --- and yes, there are people who will yell at you for selling at the bid, but if the stock is moving up, then your sale doesnt stop forward movement, and if the stock is getting weak, at resistance, then your sale has just saved your butt, so let them yell all they want --- I like my butt intact !)

Given that, when a stock rallies the mm's may get caught without much stock to sell and so they begin to short the stock, knowing full well that what goes up has to come down (and they pretty much control up and down !)

There may be stock available for them to short, or they may actually invoke "naked shorting", knowing that they will be covering their short positions within a few days (usually UNDER the 3 day settlement rules --- WHY DO YOU THINK A STOCKS RUN IS USUALLY 3 DAYS ??????)

but during all of this, either they make their money on the long side by playing the spread, or take profit on the downside by covering their shorts at a lower price than that which they sold at during the run up.

We cannot beat them at this game --- THEY OWN IT ! But we can trade well, take the profits and forget that THEY ARE THE ONLY WINNERS, NOT US ! --- we just get the scraps they leave behind !

Its a game ESO, nothing more or less and you CANNOT ever tell why someone sold to you (did they bail, did they have their profit, do they know something you dont, are they covering a short position ?)

__________________
Within the great hall at Elfinore stands a wondrous coffer, precisely four cubits square and securely latched against the outside world. Inside that repository, shut away from impertinent eyes, abides many an intriquing trading secret garnered from around the world and over the ages !

As a child, i used to watch from the darkness as the secrets were debated and annotated by the elders. No one there held a single thought of my presence -- BUT I KNOW WHERE THEY HID THE KEY !!

eSology

Nice reply MP. Thanks for the thoughts. I do see why you say it the way you do now. "Good" or "Bad" trades truly sums it up. I have realized that no matter how small the gain that profit is profit and to be content. In my opinion the "g" word (yes, greed) is what kills most newbies. They throw in $500 and expect to pull out $250. I have realized that, for me anyway, that I'll use $2500 and be happy with a quick $250 return.

circlegridder

Everyone is saying buy low and sell high. There were a lot of words used to say that but that is what was said. Whether you look at trading as war or a game, is a matter of preference and I dont think it makes any difference. The real point is when has a stock bottomed and is ready to begin a new uptrend. If that was easy to determine we would all have a maserati and three concubines.
Picking the bottoms isnt even the hardest part. When to buy is hard enough to determine but it is a lot easier then figuring out when to sell. Mr Cramer is not as popular as he once was but that does not mean he doesnt have some good things to say. For one thing, it is arrogant to think that you have picked the absolute bottom and therefore, should put all of your money in at once. Buy half and then if it goes down a little more invest the rest. If it starts up, there is almost always a pullback after the initial surge of buying which poses an opportunity to buy more. There is no reason to jump into something with both feet.
When you have a profit, take some off the table. Dont be greedy and wait for the "Homerun". Let you free shares run around the bases for you.

__________________
I didnt know is not an excuse. Its a reason for keeping quiet.

mp6140

sorry for the edit on your post circle, but cut it down to something manageable.

during the past few years i developed three methods of trading and/or locating stocks to trade that are posted on this site. the first was "mikeys method" which, in a slightly modified version, i use to this day. so dependent on it now that i will not go near any broker that does not support it and i use 4 brokers at the moment ! the second was the RSIWLR stock analyzer designed for newbs who didnt yet understand tech analysis and showed in a highly visual manner when a stock bottoms or tops. So well did this work, that i now use the realtime version of prophet.net to provide intraday charts that show me tops and bottoms of stocks with over 95% accuracy. the third was an indicator peculiar only to "pcquote.com" which no longer works because their free site just doesnt work well, but was one heck of a great indicator. I would kill to get the specifics of that indicator set up to use on other charts !

Armed with the tools i have and the experience to use them, it is only my fault if i cant find a good trade after the bell rings and cannot tell when to exit a trade to preserve capital, especially the way the markets have been roiling the past month. as proof, recently I posted on the chat room that I was exiting DKGR at 0145, which raised a few eyebrows as the stock certainly looked to go higher --- the very last two trades of the day were my 0145 sells, at which time the stock dropped only reaching that point again the following day after it reversed. not asking for kudo's because in truth i bought the stock too high on a flip and HAD to know where the top exit point was to save my butt, but the RSIWLR showed me where and what, and i flew with it !

remember though, finding bottoms is only ONE form of trading --- there are just far too many others to go into here but in full agreement with you, buying low certainly beats buying high and selling low, by a multilayered bunch !

most of what i was replying to with mightybridge was my usual "tongue planted firmly in cheek" routine (goes along with my stand up routine) although to me a good trade is the reward and the rush cause everyone else seems to see the money (and i never said concubine--LOL) except me !


enjoy and trade well --

mp

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__________________
Within the great hall at Elfinore stands a wondrous coffer, precisely four cubits square and securely latched against the outside world. Inside that repository, shut away from impertinent eyes, abides many an intriquing trading secret garnered from around the world and over the ages !

As a child, i used to watch from the darkness as the secrets were debated and annotated by the elders. No one there held a single thought of my presence -- BUT I KNOW WHERE THEY HID THE KEY !!

mightybridge

I thought the point of the hideout was to share knowledge. I was merely sharing my personal trading philososphy and what works for me and don't appreciate being attacked for it. Your comments that my approach is an immature one are certainly not appreciated. You might want to keep an open mind as my "immature" views have been around since stock charts were first invented. Furthermore, you have completely misconstrued certain aspects of my posts.

Thanks for sharing your views. I will not attack them as you did mine.

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I am not qualified to give advice. NEVER make ANY decision because of my posts. If you trade based on my excited ramblings you are a complete moron!

circlegridder

(and i never said concubine)


enjoy and trade well --

mp

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I know you never said concubine. I changed the wording so it could include the fine traders amoung us who happen to be female.

__________________
I didnt know is not an excuse. Its a reason for keeping quiet.